but the impetus to free that system came from the civil rights struggle on policy. and to think, david, he got off the terrorist list in 2008. think about that. >> he had sort of lingered there. >> he got off the perish list by george bush at the communists' urging in 2008. >> we talk about the mandela legacy and he's often compared, as we said, to dr. king, to ghandi. but those two were killed much earlier in their lives before they could see the fruits of that struggle. mandela stands alone in that regard, doesn't he? >> in many respects. but let me just say this, i think it makes sense, david. when you think about ghandi, both mandela and king learned from ghandi his whole commitment as a lawyer to non-violence. that became king's legacy in his short 39 years of life, it became nelson man dailydela's l in his 95 years of life. king freed a nation and reverend jackson talked about the 1965 civil rights act, the 1968 voting rights act, the '68 fair housing act. the world changed and he changed with it. we have to lift this great man up for what he's done and what w